tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post5219612001093082153..comments2023-10-16T06:10:24.969-04:00Comments on Julie Unplugged: Here's what they've said over the yearsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00088119765077193302noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-90782468759601064412008-01-19T10:40:00.000-05:002008-01-19T10:40:00.000-05:00Julie, thank you so much for your blog. I have str...Julie, thank you so much for your blog. I have struggled with much of the same issues as you and have found your writing exquisite. Keep up the great writing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17374058666548301430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-61380866844418905762008-01-19T10:39:00.000-05:002008-01-19T10:39:00.000-05:00Julie, thank you so much for your blog. I have str...Julie, thank you so much for your blog. I have struggled with much of the same issues as you and have found your writing exquisite. Keep up the great writing.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17374058666548301430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-67664716484935656302008-01-16T13:29:00.000-05:002008-01-16T13:29:00.000-05:00Ruthola -- as someone who identifies closely with ...Ruthola -- as someone who identifies closely with Julie's journey, I'd add that I don' think people loving us better or caring more was ultimately something that would have changed the trajectory of our journey. <BR/><BR/>It's more an observation of how hard it is for people of faith to watch a fellow traveler go in a different direction. I saw it when I first broke from Islam and I saw it when I later broke from evangelicalism, and I'm sure I'll see it if I break from my latest gang of nuts.Rob Asgharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08234244058011594244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-19252031171552268662008-01-16T06:52:00.000-05:002008-01-16T06:52:00.000-05:00Hey Ruth!Ruth, thanks for your sweet comment. That...Hey Ruth!<BR/><BR/>Ruth, thanks for your sweet comment. That wasn't your comment in my list (I wasn't generalizing, but had specific people in mind for each one), but I understand that you identified with it. Thanks for your prayers and heart of love. I do feel them.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00088119765077193302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-51195471143980621172008-01-16T02:43:00.000-05:002008-01-16T02:43:00.000-05:00I recognized my comment in there Julie! "I'm worri...I recognized my comment in there Julie! "I'm worried about you and praying for you" was natural for me because of loving you and Jon and your precious kids, and wondering if the Ohio move was a big mistake. We had a backlog of 3 years in a homegroup with you and Jon that made it seem surreal to hear you talk about shedding your faith like an outgrown old coat. And I did and still do take comfort that God holds on to YOU, rather than the other way around. Maybe I didn't give the perfect response, but I gave the one that was in my heart. No regrets. I wish people had loved you better, and cared more, and I wish you hadn't been so far away while going through all that.Rutholahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09232657170442210457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-2947199850105134042008-01-15T20:17:00.000-05:002008-01-15T20:17:00.000-05:00Hey, Julie -- this is awesome stuff. One of the t...Hey, Julie -- this is awesome stuff. One of the things I haven't mentioned about my own "drift" is that, on the morning that I woke up a few years ago and realized I was no longer an evangelical, I felt like I had just dumped a bossy, controlling girlfriend. It felt really liberating and empowering! Then came the ongoing processing of the sadness, sense of missed opportunity, a little loneliness... but always enough joy to never look back....Rob Asgharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08234244058011594244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-54507534394466482642008-01-11T19:17:00.000-05:002008-01-11T19:17:00.000-05:00Hi Julie, I appreciate your willingness to be open...Hi Julie,<BR/><BR/> I appreciate your willingness to be open about a very difficult subject for most people. I can only relate to those who said nothing...and...consequently felt hurt...but in hindsight...I now suspect a lot of folks say nothing, largely out of fear...and...subconsciously, they must be thinking if he can fall away than what could happen to me...and...falling away, or going into self imposed exile,which is what I did, can have major implications not only for the individual, but for one's family and other aspects of social and community life. I too think I have gotten over the hurt but I still have a hard time reconciling while people in leadership didn't make more of an attempt to intervene. That's the great mystery to me. When I left the church I had attended for years I was very close to the pastor and was known by many leaders in the church and I can't understand why they stood by and remained silent.Bilbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12904580918080106725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-92098187083440043352008-01-11T15:51:00.000-05:002008-01-11T15:51:00.000-05:00I'm glad you aren't still hurting, Julie! I reali...I'm glad you aren't still hurting, Julie! I realized that you were quoting from years back, but the fact that you were revisiting it and giving examples of things you wish people had said, made me think it was still a little raw.<BR/><BR/>I've always found focusing on one of Don Miguel Ruiz' four agreements - "don't take anything personally" - helpful, although hard to do. <I>Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream</I>. I remember having somewhat judgmental thoughts about people who were stuck in "victimhood" before seeing the profound impact being a victim of CSA had on my daughter. I also remember judging people's parenting skills on how their kids "turned out". I remember thinking people of faith had some sort of mental weakness. Now I eat a lot of crow. In order to forgive myself for my past ignorance and lack of empathy, I have to forgive others for the same. I recognize that they are where they are now and I am where I am now. My perceptions are formed by my experiences as are theirs. I like r.michael's idea of speaking in a foreign language - it is the language of experience and a language they won't really understand until they have seen or had those experiences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-8721946230513784262008-01-11T15:13:00.000-05:002008-01-11T15:13:00.000-05:00Dave hit it straight on.It is hard to hear when pe...Dave hit it straight on.<BR/><BR/>It is hard to hear when people of any religious or otherwise other dogmatic perspective respond with their own language rather than actually listening. I am consistently astounded how maintaining the group boundaries becomes more important than love.<BR/><BR/>And in fact doctrinal reification actually replaces love. It is as if Jesus never died as a result of that same kind of behavior - a people he loved, but could not love back. It is as if they never read any Paul's understanding that following the Law as a means to salvation will lead to failure and will only reveal our own foolishness. It is a shame that so many fundamentalists are trapped in Old Testament law even more so that most Jews. If the fulfillment of the law has been revealed to them, why do they ignore it? 'Tis a mystery.<BR/><BR/>My wife gets into these conversations with folks on Cafe Mom constantly. One atheist asked her, "I probably won't care to believe in God any day soon, but is there room in your heaven for me too?" The answer was yep. For you, the hookers trying to support their kids, steel mill workers who don't have time to go to church because they are afraid of losing their pension, and a slew of people the fundamentalists despise because those were the ones Jesus was able to reach back in the day - they actually listened.Drew Tatuskohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12344192935890766744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-21867839413650929022008-01-11T11:52:00.000-05:002008-01-11T11:52:00.000-05:00The thought occurred to me as I read your post tha...The thought occurred to me as I read your post that the answers you received were all characterized by their lack of empathy and respect that are almost guaranteed to create defensiveness, whereas your suggested "more helpful responses" all demonstrate good reflective listening skills that open the way to further, more genuine levels of conversation. This jumped out at me because I lead workshops on the subject each month. :o) <BR/><BR/>This realization leads me to lament the degree to which "power and control" tactics become the norm in many theological conversations that take place in Christian circles. People get into analyzing motives, trying to fix problems, squelch dissent or keep their own doubts and denials under wraps, and the first quality to be dispensed of in those situations is compassion for what the other person is going through. I don't want to come across as condescending here, but answers like those you quoted here seem to me like little more than neuroses trying to defend themselves...David Blakesleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12167200509158903679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-2077447107734024852008-01-11T10:53:00.000-05:002008-01-11T10:53:00.000-05:00Julie,I was really moved by the dialogue of this p...Julie,<BR/><BR/>I was really moved by the dialogue of this post. Because I am still in the midst of this process it kinda hit a nerve with me.<BR/><BR/>Understand about the silence part. For those few who I have discussed this with, the silence reaction is the one I get most often...like I a speaking a foreign language to them. I look for a glimpse of connection but I usually receive a glassy-eyed stare. I really don't think it is on their radar screen.<BR/><BR/>On occassion have received the "Satan" response...usually accompanied by the "you're a tortured soul" follow-on, but my response to that has been that during this entire process I have committed myself to two guiding principles...1)brutal honesty with myself and 2)no fear. I think it is the "no fear" response that usually ends the conversation.<BR/>Fortunately I have found a friend (who is also a professor of OT at a local college) who listens to me and expressed many of the same issues, doubts and feelings that I have. He has singularly kept me from thinking that I am losing my mind.<BR/><BR/>I am interested though in what you were feeling through this process as well as what you were thinking. Clearly there had to be some feelings of rejection and disappointment, at least at the time this was going on if not now...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-57282670487429762922008-01-10T20:56:00.000-05:002008-01-10T20:56:00.000-05:00Mariam, I hope I didn't convey that I'm still hurt...Mariam, I hope I didn't convey that I'm still hurting. I'm not. The meat of the post is from 2004.<BR/><BR/>It's sad that some of my old friends have distanced themselves from me, but I'm not hurting from it any more.<BR/><BR/>As to your question: I don't remember anyone I knew personally falling away from faith while I was an active evangelical. Theological questions have always fascinated me, though, so I usually enjoyed discussing them.<BR/><BR/>In 2002, I did have one close online friend, though, who went through a serious loss of faith before I did and I wept for her. We had a very open relationship and conversed about all the stages she went through. I listened, asked questions, read books and articles she read to understand.<BR/><BR/>I did at times feel panicky as I watched her not find answers to the questions she had. So I do empathize with the anxiety a change like this produces in close friends. For sure.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00088119765077193302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9684236.post-16824035441250779002008-01-10T20:46:00.000-05:002008-01-10T20:46:00.000-05:00Julie,It sounds as if you are still hurting:( Whe...Julie,<BR/>It sounds as if you are still hurting:( Whenever we leave something or someone that made up a huge part of our life for so long there is a sense of grief and loss even if the departure is positive and good for us. Some days we feel fine with it and other days we flounder. <BR/><BR/>I'm curious though. How did you respond to questions like yours or people like you when you were a conservative Christian?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com